John, how about I just pack up all my tools and send them to you? It sounds like you are having so much fun with your new toy and I'd really like to help out.
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| Knife sharpening 101...the Tormek way... http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=4407 |
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| Author: | John Elshaw [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:34 am ] |
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For Christmas I bought a Tormek and until now, I had no idea what sharp was. I sharpened just about every hand tool, and of course had to test each one as I finished it to see if it would shave hair, thus the backs of both hands are hairless along with a bunch of cuts I wouldn't have had before. I was trying to decide between the Tormek and Veritas Mark II. system. As it turns out, I was at Woodcraft yesterday and they were giving away a $60 shop light with the Tormek. My willpower was not very strong as my wife had already cut off our chocolate for the new year, so the Tormek had to come home with me. The Tormek is very easy to use, and until now I've never had tools this sharp. I had no idea blades could be so dull and un-true right out of the box. It's AMAZING how much better my plane works with a sharp blade. I actually thicknessed one of Jasons 6+ mm cedar tops in about 5 minutes. I'm extrmely happy with the results, but more so in the sense that I think I realized I can thickness tops/backs by hand and no longer need a thickness sander for the 2-3 guitars I'll build this year. Previously the results were poor and I always got tearout and chattering. I also love the fact that in under 5 minutes I was able to change and fine tune the bevels on all my chisels. What a difference the bevels make! Bottom line, if you're a small-time hobby builder like me, it's easy to under-estimate the importance of sharp tools and return of investment on a good sharpening system. It took me 2+ years to break down and buy one. This should have been one of my earlier purchases and it would have saved me a lot of time and trouble during the build process. If you're on the fence about getting one, don't hesitate, get some type of sharpening system. Make it your new years resolution. Cheers! John |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:07 am ] |
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John...What did you use to sharpen blades before Tormak? |
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| Author: | DennisR [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:58 pm ] |
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Same kind of question - I need to sharpen some chisels for some fine work on a heel. Best way? Grinder or stone with oil? I never can seem to get teh angle right. Any tricks? What is a Tormek? Can you attach a pic? Thx Dennis |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:04 pm ] |
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I use a Tormek for my rough shaping and sharpening, but I find I still have to finish my honing and polishing on traditional water stones. |
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| Author: | Don A [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:39 pm ] |
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John, how about I just pack up all my tools and send them to you? It sounds like you are having so much fun with your new toy and I'd really like to help out.
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| Author: | John Elshaw [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:44 pm ] |
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Hi JJ, I always used the stones and wet sandpaper to sharpen the tools in the past. I always thought they were decent and that I just didn't use the tools well, or they weren't the best choice for the job. I think the Tormek finally showed me what they should be like, and then my skills improved dramatically using sharp tools. If you're ever in the area, bring your tools and try it out. Cheers! John |
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| Author: | John Elshaw [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:47 pm ] |
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Check out tormek.com. Here's a pic: 
John |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:46 pm ] |
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WOW! Now that looks serious! I'll bet it's a lot more fun to use than my cheap guide from Home Depot!!!
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| Author: | Josh H [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:56 am ] |
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You can get just as good of an edge with water stones (what I use), although it takes a bit more elbow grease. Check out Lee Valley for there selection of sharpening equipment. They have sharpening guides that you can use to get the proper angles when sharpening. Sure it is not as nice as a power system, but it works and I imagine it is a lot cheaper. My chisels and plane blades are always sharp enough to shave with. If you can afford the power system great! If not the stones will get you tool just as sharp. Josh |
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| Author: | Dave Rector [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:26 am ] |
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I love my Tormek for sharpening plane bladed and straight chisels. It is eas, fast and I get a nice edge with it. The only thing I haven't figured out how to sharpen are those small curved blades from the Ibex planes. Anyone have a Tormek jig that can do those? |
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| Author: | rlabbe [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:19 am ] |
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I have to say these Tormek discussions (both here and other places like MIMF) confuse me. On the one hand, we have posts by people who just got one, and gush about how much sharper their tools are. On the other hand, we read that the Tormek is only good for establishing the bevel, and that we need to go on and use waterstones to get a sharp edge. |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:47 am ] |
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rlabbe If you know what you are doing you can get your tools equaly sharp with stones as with power systems. I have not seen the Tormek system so I can't really comment on it. You should be able to get your tools sharp without having to go to a stone. Maybe John E can comment on that. I think the thing is that a lot of people out there don't know how to proper sharpen their tools. Sharpening with water stones is a lot of work. You have to check your stones regularly to make sure they are flat. If they are not you need to get them flat again before you do any sharpening. Then it is best to you some sort of a guide to make sure you get all your angles right. For most of my building I use a 1/4" chisel and a 1/2" chisel as well as 2-3 planes. I sharpen these 4-5 tools regularly and other tools when I occasionally use them. It does not take that much effort to keep 4 tools sharp with water stones. The test for a sharp tool is to (like John said above) run the blade lightly over the back of your hand and see if it removes the hair. If it is sharp enough to shave with you have a sharp tool. All that being said I have at times thought it would be nice to have a power system. I'm not going to run out and buy one right away. But if you do a lot of sharpening it is probably a good investment and time saver. josh |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:40 am ] |
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I use wet-dry sand paper all the way up to 2000 grit (after the initial rough grinding) and a cheapo angle guide. My sharpening compound is a half/half mix of turpentine and mineral oil. My chisels and plane blades are always crazy sharp. |
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| Author: | John Elshaw [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:02 am ] |
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I think it really boils down to skill at sharpening. The Tormek is idiot proof and fast with great results. I'm sure the other methods work also, but I never had the skill and ability to get great results by hand. Using the Tormek, I was able to really see how dull my tools were. The first step involves leveling the back of the blade before sharpening the bevel. It took quite a good bit of grinding to get my plane blade perfectly flat. Then I flipped it over and worked on the bevel. The initial sharpening took some extra time and effort, but I'm sure the touch-ups will be much quicker. I'm not sure how long it would take to grind that much steel by hand, but I know I don't have the skill or patience to do it. As for the comment about needing wetstones after using the Tormek, I have no idea why the additional step would be needed. The Tormek will grind and sharpen to the equivalent of 1000 grit, plus the honing leather is a snap. My tools were as sharp as anything I've ever put in my hand (including my new knife I bought from the Warther knife factory last week where I watched him sharpen it to perfection). For me, the Tormek gives great, consistant results and is easy to use. I'm not sure how I would sharpen some of my curved blades and gouges by hand, much less change their bevel. I'm sure there are some skilled people here who can do it, I'm just not one of them. Cheers! John |
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| Author: | Dave Rector [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:34 am ] |
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John, have you figured out a way to sharpen something as small as one of the Ibex plane blades on the Tormek? I would love to have a method for that. So far I have just not sharpened them, but they are going to need it pretty oson. |
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| Author: | John Elshaw [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:24 am ] |
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Dave, I'm not familiar with the Ibex planes. How small are the blades? Is it possible to take a regular blade or piece of flat iron, mount it in the jig, and then just hold the Ibex blade against that as a brace? I'll have to try and find an Ibex blade to see what they look like. Of course, you could always use the jig mount as a hand rest and do it freehand, but you need to be careful. John |
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| Author: | Dave Rector [ Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:22 am ] |
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John, the Ibex planse are the little finger planes that Stew Mac and others sell. The blades are only about 1 1/2 inchec long and pretty narrow and they have a slightly rounded cutting edge. I was thinking of making some sort of clamp, kinda like Bruce Dickey's clamp for nut filing, and putting a pivot point on it so I could use the Tormek to sharpen these as well. |
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